tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23563380.post3840401981476902209..comments2023-10-02T00:28:29.335-07:00Comments on Gay LDS Actor: This Anti-Gay Culture Has To Stop!Gay LDS Actorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17841236084753512311noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23563380.post-8472027580159368562012-09-29T22:38:58.646-07:002012-09-29T22:38:58.646-07:00Oh, I agree, most of what I do want is more societ...Oh, I agree, most of what I do want is more societal than gospel, although I do wish the love I have for my husband was recognized within the gospel (as taught by the LDS Church) as being good and holy.<br /><br />Jonah thinks excommunication is a very archaic and out-of-date practice, and he does not understand it at all. I get it in theory, but thinks it's sometimes causes more damage and estrangement than good.<br /><br />I think it's funny that you didn't want to offend Jonah by calling him the "wife" in your scenario because we sometimes joke that he is my Mormon wife. <br /><br />But your example hits home a point that I strongly feel: if Jonah were exactly the person he is and if our relationship was the same except that he were in a woman instead of a man, the LDS Church would have no problem welcoming him and approving him as my partner. <br /><br />We could go to church together and be treated normally by fellow ward members even though he's not a member. And I wouldn't have been excommunicated at all. Our love, the day-to-day activities and life we share would be the same. It's only because of our shared gender that we are not.<br /><br />I actually think (perhaps wrongly) that more gay people would be more more monogamous and less promiscuous if homosexuality were not considered taboo earlier in life. I think a lot of the unhealthy behaviors that one finds in certain segments of the homosexual population (drug use, promiscuous and unsafe sex, binge drinking, etc.) are precisely because they are trying to fill a void left when they are made to feel badly about who they are as gay individuals by society, their families, their religions, etc. I think if homosexuality and gay relationships were seen as good and normal by all, there would actually be less of that.<br /><br />Certainly it wouldn't be eliminated entirely just as we see in straight relationships and people, but I do surmise that self-destructive behaviors would be lessened in both groups if they felt more love in their lives and if they were taught more healthy attitudes about sex and love, in general. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I believe although there's certainly no way to prove it.<br /><br />Perhaps I'm rambling as well. I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense or has any correlation, really, with what your comments were, but that is what they sparked.<br /><br />If we're ever in Oregon, maybe we'll take you up on your offer. I've only been there once (Jonah, never), and I still feel Oregon is one of the prettiest states I've ever been in.Gay LDS Actorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17841236084753512311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23563380.post-71717056508327073612012-09-28T00:13:59.148-07:002012-09-28T00:13:59.148-07:00For me, if temple marriage is taken off the table,...For me, if temple marriage is taken off the table, the rest of the things you are "asking" for seem to be issues of societal norms, rather than gospel. I guess baptism and membership could come in, but since you aren't excommunicated if you marry a nonmember, or a member of another religion, I actually think that excommunication is kind of a stretch for a monogamous, legalized relationship.<br /><br />I actually think that you and Jonah are a good example of a gay couple who would be pretty similar to a heterosexual mixed religious marriage. So I don't offend Jonah, I will let you be the "wife" in this flight of fancy. <br /><br />Lets imagine a couple where she is Mormon, and he is not, where they did not have sex before marrying with each other or anyone else. She had been on a mission, so she was endowed, and had struggled with not wanting to marry a Mormon man for cultural reasons.<br /><br /> (All three times I married it was to someone who was not LDS. I can't say I was disappointed when they joined the church, but I would have been okay if it never happened.)<br /><br />So, if that was the case for a heterosexual couple, they would be allowed to have a civil or religious ceremony, in any place or state, and have their marriage be recognized by the church. The non-LDS member would be welcomed to ward activities and services, and as long as it is tasteful, displays of affection would go unnoticed. The member would be encouraged to stay active, but not to force church issues to an extent that would hurt the marriage. (For example, pay tithing on your entire household income if you can, but if it causes problems, you can still have a temple recommend or be considered a full tithe payer tithing on an amount that the other spouse is comfortable with, even if that amount is nothing.)<br /><br />I can see the church asking members in a homosexual couple to not discuss their sexual relationship at church, but it isn't like we have in depth discussions on how best to pleasure our heterosexual partners. I guess who owes who sex might be harder to figure out without a gender assigned scape goat. ;-)<br /><br />I think that most of the things used as excuses for accepting celebate homosexuals, but not ones who are "out" is the assumption that all homosexual relationships are unstable, and that significant parts of a homosexual's life will be spent having sex with multiple partners. As long as there are no civil unions or marriages, and thus no way to track how many people would choose a long term stable relationship, there really is no way to confirm or refute the theory. Everything is anecdotal because there is no way of collecting data and systemically studying the issue. Without benefits, and with the stigma, there is not any reason for homosexual couples who would oftentimes be married by statute (because they have been living together long enough to have it recognized as a marriage) to call attention to themselves. This means that most heterosexuals who do not have homosexual friends, only see the anecdotes that already fit their world view. <br /><br />I don't know if that makes sense, or if I just ended up rambling a lot. I am so glad you and Jonah will be together for the holidays. If you ever come to Oregon, you have a standing invitation to stay and enjoy the mountain, and as much homemade hot chocolate as you want. :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13655197693521484077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23563380.post-47688364446858662172012-09-27T23:23:58.328-07:002012-09-27T23:23:58.328-07:00Not insensitive at all.
Ideally, I would hope for...Not insensitive at all.<br /><br />Ideally, I would hope for a system in which gay members do not feel marginalized. I would certainly wish for unions with the same legal rights as any other marriage. Whether it's actually called marriage is not as important to me as long as I can do it and it is recognized federally. <br /><br />It would be wonderful if a gay couple could be married for time and all eternity, but I don't know that the LDS Church will ever reach that point.<br /><br />Certainly, I would love gay members and couples to be treated like any other straight couple. It would be nice to go to church as a committed gay couple and not have anyone think twice about it.<br /><br />Mostly, I'd like legal rights, tax breaks, and the securities that come with marriage and I would like my marriage to be recognized as normal and good. <br /><br />At the very least, I would love to fill out a form without having to second-guess whether it is appropriate to check the "single" or "married" box.Gay LDS Actorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17841236084753512311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23563380.post-78945421475939710902012-09-25T02:21:23.675-07:002012-09-25T02:21:23.675-07:00I hope this does not come across as insensitive, b...I hope this does not come across as insensitive, but I truly am curious. What would you see an ideal system for gay members of the church, accepted in civil unions or marriage or some close equivalent, in 50 years? (Hopefully sooner, but 50 is a nice round number, and it seems long enough to be accepted for at least 5-10 years by then.) What would you and Jonah most like to have that you don't now? What would be the first priorities, and what would the long-term ideas or cultural norms that would take longer to change while still being important?<br /><br />I ask for two reasons, the first is that I have never lived in Utah, and the second "duh" reason is that I am not gay. ;-) I ask because I have some ideas, but I am guessing that you and Jonah will have many thoughts that wouldn't occur to me. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13655197693521484077noreply@blogger.com